Comments on: Congrats to Tantek and Rohit - (both smiling) http://blog.broadbandmechanics.com/2006/06/congrats-to-tantek-and-rohit-both-smiling Digital Lifestyle Aggregation - helping to establish open source infrastructure Mon, 13 Oct 2008 16:50:02 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Paul Fabretti http://blog.broadbandmechanics.com/2006/06/congrats-to-tantek-and-rohit-both-smiling#comment-52038 Paul Fabretti Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:00:46 +0000 http://blog.broadbandmechanics.com/2006/06/congrats-to-tantek-and-rohit-both-smiling#comment-52038 I have to admit that talk of coding languages etc. throws me (so "why are you here?" I hear you ask!) but as an end-user and someone who is always on the lookout for ways to enhance my business or gain advantages, this post is symptomatic of so many reasons why we are walking a technology tight-rope. Wiki, blog, web 2.0, microformats, bullshit 2.0...give it a name if it makes you feel better, but ultimately, what does it mean the the end user? F*** All. How does Soccer Mom Sandy or her family make use of (X)html, do they really care whether they use Atom or RSS 2.0? NO. It is the responsibility of the developers to sell the benefits of what these technologies do that will grow the net, not the titles that we give them. This is where Yahoo! are currently so far ahead of the game IMHO. They turn technology that is being talked about above and turn it into something that everydayjoe (not factoryjoe, 'cause he's as smart as hell!!) can understand the benefits of. No teminology, just benefits. Maybe I've missed the point and that this conversation is developer-only and not meant to circulate in the "household" public domain, but I am beginning to wonder if development is advancing at such a pace, everybody is forgetting why we (sorry, YOU!) are all developing products for. Is the speedy development and subsequent take-up of technology by geeks (not used derogatively BTW) going at such a pace that the masses are not getting a chance to benefit? I have to admit that talk of coding languages etc. throws me (so “why are you here?” I hear you ask!) but as an end-user and someone who is always on the lookout for ways to enhance my business or gain advantages, this post is symptomatic of so many reasons why we are walking a technology tight-rope.

Wiki, blog, web 2.0, microformats, bullshit 2.0…give it a name if it makes you feel better, but ultimately, what does it mean the the end user? F*** All.

How does Soccer Mom Sandy or her family make use of (X)html, do they really care whether they use Atom or RSS 2.0? NO.

It is the responsibility of the developers to sell the benefits of what these technologies do that will grow the net, not the titles that we give them.

This is where Yahoo! are currently so far ahead of the game IMHO. They turn technology that is being talked about above and turn it into something that everydayjoe (not factoryjoe, ’cause he’s as smart as hell!!) can understand the benefits of. No teminology, just benefits.

Maybe I’ve missed the point and that this conversation is developer-only and not meant to circulate in the “household” public domain, but I am beginning to wonder if development is advancing at such a pace, everybody is forgetting why we (sorry, YOU!) are all developing products for.

Is the speedy development and subsequent take-up of technology by geeks (not used derogatively BTW) going at such a pace that the masses are not getting a chance to benefit?

]]> By: Bob Wyman http://blog.broadbandmechanics.com/2006/06/congrats-to-tantek-and-rohit-both-smiling#comment-51249 Bob Wyman Fri, 23 Jun 2006 16:16:50 +0000 http://blog.broadbandmechanics.com/2006/06/congrats-to-tantek-and-rohit-both-smiling#comment-51249 Marc, if you "aligned" yourself with PubSub, you made a mistake. You were supposed to be "aligned" with the idea of Structured Blogging. The reason we hired you and your team to build and champion the Structured Blogging plugins and tools was that we wanted to avoid the kind of competitivenes that we felt was inevitable. In order to reduce the opportunity for stupid and wasteful inter-company fighting, we intentionally moved PubSub into the background and supported others who would champion the idea. From the very beginnings of the project, it was made clear that *ALL* formats should be supported. What we were looking for was a way to move away from sterile debates over unimplemented formats and move the focus instead to the construction of tools and applications that could bring to users the benefits of structured content and Structured Blogging. As I've said on numerous occaisions, Structured Blogging is a thing you do. It is not about formats. One of my biggest regrets about the demise of PubSub is that we won't be able to continue supporting you and others in building the tools that are needed to make Structured Blogging (or even "microformats") successful and useful. If the Structured Blogging effort falters due to our demise, it is likely that we won't see much more out of Technorati and micro-formats "community effort" than we've seen so far -- more formats with very few useful implementations. This is not what the user community deserves or needs. We should be focusing on tools -- not formats. Formats are for geeks and academics. Tools are for users... In any case, I'd like to thank you, Kimbro, Phil, Raju, and all the others who have put time and effort into making Structured Blogging as successful as it has become. Of course, I wish for more success in bringing these tools to the hands of users, but what has been accomplished already is goodness. Thanks for all you've done. bob wyman Marc, if you “aligned” yourself with PubSub, you made a mistake. You were supposed to be “aligned” with the idea of Structured Blogging. The reason we hired you and your team to build and champion the Structured Blogging plugins and tools was that we wanted to avoid the kind of competitivenes that we felt was inevitable. In order to reduce the opportunity for stupid and wasteful inter-company fighting, we intentionally moved PubSub into the background and supported others who would champion the idea. From the very beginnings of the project, it was made clear that *ALL* formats should be supported. What we were looking for was a way to move away from sterile debates over unimplemented formats and move the focus instead to the construction of tools and applications that could bring to users the benefits of structured content and Structured Blogging. As I’ve said on numerous occaisions, Structured Blogging is a thing you do. It is not about formats.

One of my biggest regrets about the demise of PubSub is that we won’t be able to continue supporting you and others in building the tools that are needed to make Structured Blogging (or even “microformats”) successful and useful. If the Structured Blogging effort falters due to our demise, it is likely that we won’t see much more out of Technorati and micro-formats “community effort” than we’ve seen so far — more formats with very few useful implementations. This is not what the user community deserves or needs. We should be focusing on tools — not formats. Formats are for geeks and academics. Tools are for users…

In any case, I’d like to thank you, Kimbro, Phil, Raju, and all the others who have put time and effort into making Structured Blogging as successful as it has become. Of course, I wish for more success in bringing these tools to the hands of users, but what has been accomplished already is goodness. Thanks for all you’ve done.

bob wyman

]]> By: Marc’s Voice » Blog Archive » New birth for Structured Blogging? http://blog.broadbandmechanics.com/2006/06/congrats-to-tantek-and-rohit-both-smiling#comment-51053 Marc’s Voice » Blog Archive » New birth for Structured Blogging? Thu, 22 Jun 2006 23:44:01 +0000 http://blog.broadbandmechanics.com/2006/06/congrats-to-tantek-and-rohit-both-smiling#comment-51053 [...] Kimbro Staken makes many correct statements and declares a new beginning for StructuredBlogging.org - but before I just completely just take back everything I just said, let me point out some cold hard facts: [...] [...] Kimbro Staken makes many correct statements and declares a new beginning for StructuredBlogging.org - but before I just completely just take back everything I just said, let me point out some cold hard facts: [...]

]]> By: Martin http://blog.broadbandmechanics.com/2006/06/congrats-to-tantek-and-rohit-both-smiling#comment-51041 Martin Thu, 22 Jun 2006 22:57:45 +0000 http://blog.broadbandmechanics.com/2006/06/congrats-to-tantek-and-rohit-both-smiling#comment-51041 Where/when is that picture from? That's undeniably a Wharton School podium. Where/when is that picture from? That’s undeniably a Wharton School podium.

]]> By: Kimbro Staken http://blog.broadbandmechanics.com/2006/06/congrats-to-tantek-and-rohit-both-smiling#comment-51016 Kimbro Staken Thu, 22 Jun 2006 21:34:41 +0000 http://blog.broadbandmechanics.com/2006/06/congrats-to-tantek-and-rohit-both-smiling#comment-51016 Marc please read this http://www.kstaken.com/archives/46_microformats-and-structured-blogging-are-not-competitors.html Marc please read this http://www.kstaken.com/archives/46_microformats-and-structured-blogging-are-not-competitors.html

]]> By: Inspirational Technology » Blog Archive » Microformats and Structured Blogging are not competitors http://blog.broadbandmechanics.com/2006/06/congrats-to-tantek-and-rohit-both-smiling#comment-51011 Inspirational Technology » Blog Archive » Microformats and Structured Blogging are not competitors Thu, 22 Jun 2006 21:30:09 +0000 http://blog.broadbandmechanics.com/2006/06/congrats-to-tantek-and-rohit-both-smiling#comment-51011 [...] It’s been an unfortunately common misconception that Structured Blogging and Microformats are competitors. Now, even Marc Canter whose company hired me to work on Structured Blogging late last year, has fallen into the trap of thinking this way when he says “However with the demise (and inevitable dissolution of PubSub) it looks like Dave Sifry’s stampeding marketing efforts have won.”. How can they win when they’re not even competeting? I’ll lay it out in simple terms here. [...] [...] It’s been an unfortunately common misconception that Structured Blogging and Microformats are competitors. Now, even Marc Canter whose company hired me to work on Structured Blogging late last year, has fallen into the trap of thinking this way when he says “However with the demise (and inevitable dissolution of PubSub) it looks like Dave Sifry’s stampeding marketing efforts have won.”. How can they win when they’re not even competeting? I’ll lay it out in simple terms here. [...]

]]> By: Tara http://blog.broadbandmechanics.com/2006/06/congrats-to-tantek-and-rohit-both-smiling#comment-51001 Tara Thu, 22 Jun 2006 19:58:29 +0000 http://blog.broadbandmechanics.com/2006/06/congrats-to-tantek-and-rohit-both-smiling#comment-51001 Marc, It's not fair to say that Microformats belong to Technorati btw. It's a community based effort...and while we are working together you will learn the importance of not fighting community based movements. This is the key to what I do, Marc. It is about keeping it real. Things don't fail by accident. Chris and I as a team will do what we can to make certain that everyone plays nice to benefit the group that deserves more - the end user. That's the side we are on. Tara Marc,

It’s not fair to say that Microformats belong to Technorati btw. It’s a community based effort…and while we are working together you will learn the importance of not fighting community based movements. This is the key to what I do, Marc. It is about keeping it real. Things don’t fail by accident.

Chris and I as a team will do what we can to make certain that everyone plays nice to benefit the group that deserves more - the end user. That’s the side we are on.

Tara

]]> By: Marc’s Voice » Blog Archive » Why Microformats is a good thing an why we need to stop worrying about labels http://blog.broadbandmechanics.com/2006/06/congrats-to-tantek-and-rohit-both-smiling#comment-50998 Marc’s Voice » Blog Archive » Why Microformats is a good thing an why we need to stop worrying about labels Thu, 22 Jun 2006 19:50:56 +0000 http://blog.broadbandmechanics.com/2006/06/congrats-to-tantek-and-rohit-both-smiling#comment-50998 [...] Chris Messina left this comment: This is certainly a good thing and major accomplishment, regardless of what you call it. [...] [...] Chris Messina left this comment: This is certainly a good thing and major accomplishment, regardless of what you call it. [...]

]]> By: Dimitri Glazkov http://blog.broadbandmechanics.com/2006/06/congrats-to-tantek-and-rohit-both-smiling#comment-50990 Dimitri Glazkov Thu, 22 Jun 2006 19:05:03 +0000 http://blog.broadbandmechanics.com/2006/06/congrats-to-tantek-and-rohit-both-smiling#comment-50990 As for identifying a specific piece of microformatted content on a page, what's wrong with good, old id attribute? As for identifying a specific piece of microformatted content on a page, what’s wrong with good, old id attribute?

]]> By: Dimitri Glazkov http://blog.broadbandmechanics.com/2006/06/congrats-to-tantek-and-rohit-both-smiling#comment-50989 Dimitri Glazkov Thu, 22 Jun 2006 19:02:55 +0000 http://blog.broadbandmechanics.com/2006/06/congrats-to-tantek-and-rohit-both-smiling#comment-50989 Ok, boys -- let's not confuse the reader with another form of abbreviation. I think the convention is (X)HTML :) Ok, boys — let’s not confuse the reader with another form of abbreviation. I think the convention is (X)HTML :)

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