Response to comment by Kaat
Kaat - an anonymous commenter (off of a server in Amsterdam) left this comment:
Funny..
One day you’re saying “this whole copyright, trademark and patent law system sucks”
The next you’re saying “So the PeopleAggregator will NOT be open source.”
So tell me.. What’s the meaning of “whole” in your dictionary?
Hey dude (or dudess) thanks for the remark. Its clear that this is a controversial issue - so I’m gonna deal with it head on. This has nothing to do with copyright, trademark or patents. It has to do with making a living being a software guy. Or gal.
I don’t necessarily prescribe to the notion that software MUST be free. We make lots of contributions to open source platforms (Drupal’s Organic Groups for instance) and we have also created entire systems that we ‘gave away’ (ourmedia.org.)
We are also establishing open standards - for everyone to use - if they want to (both in the area of structuredblogging.org and open social networks.) [See the soon to arrive PeopleAggregator.org platform.]
But we don’t necessarily solicit or accept contributions to our code and we ALSO like to be straight and honest with what our intentions are and how we plan on making money. Its this honest transparency which I’d like to call ‘open source’ - but I also don’t want to conflict with what is the accepted ‘official’ definition either. So we’re gonna be using the phrase “source code available”.
Maybe the term should be called open ideas - cause that’s what I want to give away for free. The idea itself should spread as a viral meme. That’s how I expect digital lifestyle aggregation to spread. And it is.
You see I’ve been doing this for over 25+ years and I’ve seen new eras come and go - so I don’t buy any pronouncements or industry norms or the ‘way its done’. I do it my way - as the song goes - thank you very much.
What we’re trying to do is change the world. Open Source, as we know it, is changing the world - but I wouldn’t get too hung up on the exact defintion of open source. Since what we’re doing does NOT ascribe to the official defintion of open source, we are NOT calling it open source.
That’s so we’re clear to our customers up front - what the deal is.
But we ARE making the source code available (with no restrictions ot usage - except attribution), we are NOT charging anyone BUT folks who are MAKING MONEY from our code and we will NOT be charging for updates.
So what our license will say is:
- free if you’re a non-profit, student, government agency or someone NOT making money
- pay-as-you-go fees. So:
>250 = $2,500 = $10 per person
251-1,000 = $5,000 = $5 per person
1,001-10,000 = $10,000 = $1 per person
10,001-100,000 = $15,000 = $.15 per person
100,000+ = $20,000 = $.02 per person
- by ‘pay-as-you-go’ we mean - you don’t pay us in advance what you ‘think’ the size of your network will be - you just pay us - WHEN the people are in your network AND you’re charging THEM (or making money off of them by advertising - which we define as getting paid!)
- so in this ‘pay-as-you-go’ scenario - you pay us continuing fees as your network increases in size, with the cost-per-user dropping (see above)
- or if you prefer (which is the easier scenario) you could make an guestimate and hand us - say $10,00 - and hope that you make you numbers.
Does that make sense?
So we’re NOT expecting ANY money from semantic web researchers, government funded research, spiratually oriented or community activist endeavors or any hackers, student, developer, etc. out there.
ONLY until you launch your product, get it rolling and start seeing money come in - would you owe us money. That seems fair - to me. And the cost caps out at $20k - only if you’ve got 100,00s or millions of people in your network. Our fees are not based upon how MUCH money you’re making, but how many people are in there. Does that make sense? And it’s a flat rate, one time fee. And updates are for free. Forever.
So that’s our policy, how we’re going charge and - oh - source code is available. That’s what we think is fair.
If you want support, training or custom work done - you can hire us for that. We’ll have subscription deals and one-offs. We’ll also encourage others to do the same. Have you ever heard of Director? We were pretty successful in giving birth to a new industry called ‘multimedia’. I think that’s about to happen again. We did it before and we’ll do it again.
That’s what’s up. How do YOU make your money - Kaat?
So how do you enforce your rules for licensing? What stops someone who has “money rolling in” simply ignoring your rules.
That’s right - copyright law, and specifically the legal contract that your ownership of the copyright of your code allows you to enforce. So you think that copyright law sucks, and yet it’s exactly the mechanism that allows you to enforce the (perfectly fair imho) rules on the use of your software.
Can you spot the contradiction there?
So how do you enforce your rules for licensing? What stops someone who has “money rolling in” simply ignoring your rules.
That’s right - copyright law, and specifically the legal contract that your ownership of the copyright of your code allows you to enforce. So you think that copyright law sucks, and yet it’s exactly the mechanism that allows you to enforce the (perfectly fair imho) rules on the use of your software.
Can you spot the contradiction there?
So how do you enforce your rules for licensing? What stops someone who has “money rolling in” simply ignoring your rules.
That’s right - copyright law, and specifically the legal contract that your ownership of the copyright of your code allows you to enforce. So you think that copyright law sucks, and yet it’s exactly the mechanism that allows you to enforce the (perfectly fair imho) rules on the use of your software.
Can you spot the contradiction there?
Marc,
Thanks for the details of your business plan. I’ve long thought that every website out there should have a “how we make money” page in the about us section I only want to do business with companies that are:
A) friendly - treat me as a customer, not a cash cow and don’t change the rules without giving me plenty of notice and ways to export/archive and go my own way.
B) viable - make money PLEASE, I have no interest in investing time and effort into something that disappears, especially if the things I made/stored there and all my personal information go to the highest bidder when you die.
People calling you on misusing Open Source is understandable, as it’s been misused by so many companies. But you aren’t Microsoft, folks could cut you a little slack for your lack of precision.
Marc,
Thanks for the details of your business plan. I’ve long thought that every website out there should have a “how we make money” page in the about us section I only want to do business with companies that are:
A) friendly - treat me as a customer, not a cash cow and don’t change the rules without giving me plenty of notice and ways to export/archive and go my own way.
B) viable - make money PLEASE, I have no interest in investing time and effort into something that disappears, especially if the things I made/stored there and all my personal information go to the highest bidder when you die.
People calling you on misusing Open Source is understandable, as it’s been misused by so many companies. But you aren’t Microsoft, folks could cut you a little slack for your lack of precision.
Marc,
Thanks for the details of your business plan. I’ve long thought that every website out there should have a “how we make money” page in the about us section I only want to do business with companies that are:
A) friendly - treat me as a customer, not a cash cow and don’t change the rules without giving me plenty of notice and ways to export/archive and go my own way.
B) viable - make money PLEASE, I have no interest in investing time and effort into something that disappears, especially if the things I made/stored there and all my personal information go to the highest bidder when you die.
People calling you on misusing Open Source is understandable, as it’s been misused by so many companies. But you aren’t Microsoft, folks could cut you a little slack for your lack of precision.
I can see what you mean however, a Trademark is an investment, that companies put time and money into, LOTS of it! The fact that they give so much out in marketing and NONE to protect the trademark, makes me upset and confused…. If you are going to have a trademark, suport it, it is YOUR name, YOUR company and YOUR idea, why should others take your idea and make money off it??
I can see what you mean however, a Trademark is an investment, that companies put time and money into, LOTS of it! The fact that they give so much out in marketing and NONE to protect the trademark, makes me upset and confused…. If you are going to have a trademark, suport it, it is YOUR name, YOUR company and YOUR idea, why should others take your idea and make money off it??
I can see what you mean however, a Trademark is an investment, that companies put time and money into, LOTS of it! The fact that they give so much out in marketing and NONE to protect the trademark, makes me upset and confused…. If you are going to have a trademark, suport it, it is YOUR name, YOUR company and YOUR idea, why should others take your idea and make money off it??
You are saying that the PA source code is available. I’m asking you where we can find it. I’m trying to build a list of social bookmarking systems and social networking systems which are open source or which make available their source code for educational purposes and I was willing to mention PA. Thank in advance!
You are saying that the PA source code is available. I’m asking you where we can find it. I’m trying to build a list of social bookmarking systems and social networking systems which are open source or which make available their source code for educational purposes and I was willing to mention PA. Thank in advance!
You are saying that the PA source code is available. I’m asking you where we can find it. I’m trying to build a list of social bookmarking systems and social networking systems which are open source or which make available their source code for educational purposes and I was willing to mention PA. Thank in advance!
Sure looks a like fair deal to me. Open sourcing is an option which should be well considered by company before choosing that way. It’s not a solution to all our problems. The idea that you pay if you start making money with the software and work of other people is nothing bad. And if you look at the price tag BBM is putting on the PeopleAggregator that looks like a VERY REASONABLE pricing. I wish all companies were as fair and as smart (being fair will not only pay off these days, but being unfair won’t work anymore).
Sure looks a like fair deal to me. Open sourcing is an option which should be well considered by company before choosing that way. It’s not a solution to all our problems. The idea that you pay if you start making money with the software and work of other people is nothing bad. And if you look at the price tag BBM is putting on the PeopleAggregator that looks like a VERY REASONABLE pricing. I wish all companies were as fair and as smart (being fair will not only pay off these days, but being unfair won’t work anymore).
Sure looks a like fair deal to me. Open sourcing is an option which should be well considered by company before choosing that way. It’s not a solution to all our problems. The idea that you pay if you start making money with the software and work of other people is nothing bad. And if you look at the price tag BBM is putting on the PeopleAggregator that looks like a VERY REASONABLE pricing. I wish all companies were as fair and as smart (being fair will not only pay off these days, but being unfair won’t work anymore).