OH MY GOD - Microsoft Live is Hailstorm 2.0
…
..but in a good way. Assuming they allow us to mesh into it - and vice versa.
As I sat in the etribes.com/mashup last night (near the Savoy Theater, off the Strand) - I was honored to listen to Sam Seshi rap out Microsoft’s Live.com platform. Similar to NetVibes in a lot of ways, Live.com right now is just a simple Ajaxian ‘build your own dashboard’ UI.
What I was struck with - was how similar the long term strategy is to AOL’s new AIMspace platform - which will be shipping - soon. The Microsoft stuff has all the usual stuff: Local services, favorite lists, external modules, personal pages and federated IDs. But so will AOL and Yahoo as well.
In other words - the integrated DLA platform wars have begun!
Microsoft Live is the dashboard for an entire slew of Microsoft Web 2.0 like services and applications. They have this coolio new IM based system called Live Contacts, and a comprehensive Ad Center (which would track and sell end-users behavior patterns and support AttentionTrust.org.) By far - the coolest, newest thing Sam talked about was a Microsoft Point and Redmption system. Sam claimed Google had Google Points already, so now they had one of those - too!
What struck me on the head like a sledge hammer was that this was first time I had ever heard a Microsoft person talk about trust, openness and end-users controlling their own data! What a twlight zone moment! For someone like me to have seen the old Microsoft execute like a slow lumbering Mongol horde, destroying all in its paths, here they were - ONE MORE TIME - changing horses in mid-stream and redirecting their efforts in the way “that the wind blows”.
God dammit - that is Bill and Steve’s genius. The ability to smell the roses and head in that direction. No matter what the trend and era is. They never innovate or take the risks. But once a new direction is clear - they come storming in like a wave of Mongols.
Sam talked about a future which first got worse (with huge data silos forming in 2007) with the inevitable opening up of those data silos in 2008. That’s where our vision of destiny defers. I think we - no in fact I KNOW we can do better than that. I KNOW we can all work together - off the batt and not go through a painful era of fighting over who owns what consumer or member list.
What Sam rapped out was an elegant sophisticaed, Microsoft style integrated platform, just like he was pitching Vista or some XBox strategy. That’s exactly what AOL and Yahoo are doing - as well. They’ll all have their own DLA-like platform - and offer us ‘open modules’ to plug ourselves into.
Coolio - we like that!
I guess Kim Cameron really has had an effect there at Microsoft.
On one hand you can say “Hailstorm” is back - on the other hand it’s based upon open standards this time - RSS, OPML, microcontent, digital IDs.
What we know this time is what to demand of Microsoft (control over our own data and personas) and though Passport is still around (as the internal MS ID system) they’ve started to roll out the notion of the ‘meta-identity’ system, as propounded and developed by Kim Cameron and his team.
Julian Bond was in the audience and immediately complained “they’ll never be a LAMP version of Infocards” - but what I wanted to explain to Julian was that Microsoft is in the business of taking care of themselves, just as Yahoo, Google and AOL are - as well. So don’t expect a Linux version of anything from Microsoft, but you CAN expect meta-identity compatible ID systems for LAMP - that’s for dam sure.
For sure - each of these giants will make their own decisions, in their own due time, but at the end of the day - if they don’t open up - they’ll eventually lose their customer.
At least we have a way to connect these giant worlds together (and take us small little fry along for the ride at the same time.) That’s a huge breakthough and is the foundation of us building the distributed web infrastructure. What I’ve been chanting about is our own Open Source Infrastructure and the other kinds of open standards we need.
So it was really glorious to hear Sam’s rap last night. I came away incredibly excited and anxious to meet those folks at Mix06. I’ll have a list of requests for compatiblity with our open ‘tentacles’ which will enable us to mesh all that Vista/MS Live stuff - in with AOL and Yahoo based data and content - as well.
Just think of the beneficiaries - US!
StructuredBlogging.org is an attempt to keep all the various formats of microcontent compatible. Our upcoming PeopleAggregator APIs will provide basic social networking capabilities - to all - and a way of inter-connecting disparate social networks into one giant distrbuted mesh.
The world of media needs standards like Media RSS and one could imagine burgeoning new standards around Tags, Reputation, Events and Musical tastes and preferences.
Clearly the strains between open and closed, BigCo vs Independents and GYM vs the rest of us has begun. Though the GYM moniker needs to include AOL and Apple too - as well. GYMAA.
But they don’t have all the options yet - either. Remember that ALL the innovation is coming from us, and we ain’t done yet. What Microsoft DIDN’T show was groups, tools or any sort of integrated media management (i.e. tie your gallery into music downloading, master playlists, shared data and tagging.)
Now the question is - how open will Microsoft Live be? Sure you can always paste a Flickr module onto one’s public page, but will we be able to read/write all the content and meta-data and move it around freely? Many in the audience were fearful and doubt Microsoft’s intentions.
Me - I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt cause as soon as they fuck up - we’ll all just drop them like a 10 ton stone. For that same reason I’m willing to give AOL and Yahoo a shot at my loyalty - too. Ideally we’d get them all playing off of each other.
So with Microsoft joining Yahoo and AOL in providing ‘open platforms’, that leaves only Apple and Google left in the GYMAA alliance. Afterall - all the Content typed into Google Base is owned by Google - right? And I’m completly positive Apple will be all open and such - right?
It’s so hard to have this conversation. I really, really hope that Infocards is open enough that it’s *possible* to write a LAMP based Identity Provider and Service provider that uses and interoperates with other Infocard systems. I don’t expect Microsoft to help with this, but I don’t really understand why they can’t. If Infocards were an open source standard, you’d see sample code and libraries being built by the community for multiple platforms. But because the source is a company, we apparently can’t expect them to also be the community or put effort into kickstarting the work. So the task falls on us. We end up having to do all the work with no help beyond reading the specs because we find it interesting. But I worry that the end result is that the LAMP community will not bother precisely because the spec came from Microsoft. The conclusion then is that Infocards is exactly the same as Passport. A reasonable identity system that only ever gets used inside Microsoft’s garden. The garden may have no walls but there’s still nobody else in it. What would be worse than this would be if Infocards has an open spec but the spec requires technology that only Microsoft has. Then it really doesn’t matter whether it’s open or not, it’s still impossible for anyone else to implement. For the record, I think that’s where it’s going. Like I said at the start I really, really hope I’m wrong.
I’ve thrown down a gauntlet in front of Kim Cameron. “Explain how InfoCard will get implemented on LAMP systems”. That doesn’t mean Kim has to do it, or that Microsoft has to do it. It’s only asking Microsoft how they think it will get done and by implication whether they’ll do anything to help. 9 months later, I’m still waiting for an answer.
The deeper question in here is how much any of these BigCos can open up and involve and support the development community when they are “in the business of taking care of themselves”. Google’s work with XMPP and Yahoo’s API groups are hopeful signs that people in those companies can see the self interest in supporting and listening to 3rd parties. Can Microsoft do the same thing? Or is the limit of their openness to use open standards? Although even that is a huge step which should be applauded.
Sam Sethi said some things that suggest that he does get it. And he’s a consultant working back in his old company not an employee. But I’m afraid the presentation seemed to be a classic MS presentation of futures, most of which were “Me Too” products, sprinkled overall with plenty of FUD. I’ve sat through too many of those not to be just a tiny bit cynical.
It’s so hard to have this conversation. I really, really hope that Infocards is open enough that it’s *possible* to write a LAMP based Identity Provider and Service provider that uses and interoperates with other Infocard systems. I don’t expect Microsoft to help with this, but I don’t really understand why they can’t. If Infocards were an open source standard, you’d see sample code and libraries being built by the community for multiple platforms. But because the source is a company, we apparently can’t expect them to also be the community or put effort into kickstarting the work. So the task falls on us. We end up having to do all the work with no help beyond reading the specs because we find it interesting. But I worry that the end result is that the LAMP community will not bother precisely because the spec came from Microsoft. The conclusion then is that Infocards is exactly the same as Passport. A reasonable identity system that only ever gets used inside Microsoft’s garden. The garden may have no walls but there’s still nobody else in it. What would be worse than this would be if Infocards has an open spec but the spec requires technology that only Microsoft has. Then it really doesn’t matter whether it’s open or not, it’s still impossible for anyone else to implement. For the record, I think that’s where it’s going. Like I said at the start I really, really hope I’m wrong.
I’ve thrown down a gauntlet in front of Kim Cameron. “Explain how InfoCard will get implemented on LAMP systems”. That doesn’t mean Kim has to do it, or that Microsoft has to do it. It’s only asking Microsoft how they think it will get done and by implication whether they’ll do anything to help. 9 months later, I’m still waiting for an answer.
The deeper question in here is how much any of these BigCos can open up and involve and support the development community when they are “in the business of taking care of themselves”. Google’s work with XMPP and Yahoo’s API groups are hopeful signs that people in those companies can see the self interest in supporting and listening to 3rd parties. Can Microsoft do the same thing? Or is the limit of their openness to use open standards? Although even that is a huge step which should be applauded.
Sam Sethi said some things that suggest that he does get it. And he’s a consultant working back in his old company not an employee. But I’m afraid the presentation seemed to be a classic MS presentation of futures, most of which were “Me Too” products, sprinkled overall with plenty of FUD. I’ve sat through too many of those not to be just a tiny bit cynical.
It’s so hard to have this conversation. I really, really hope that Infocards is open enough that it’s *possible* to write a LAMP based Identity Provider and Service provider that uses and interoperates with other Infocard systems. I don’t expect Microsoft to help with this, but I don’t really understand why they can’t. If Infocards were an open source standard, you’d see sample code and libraries being built by the community for multiple platforms. But because the source is a company, we apparently can’t expect them to also be the community or put effort into kickstarting the work. So the task falls on us. We end up having to do all the work with no help beyond reading the specs because we find it interesting. But I worry that the end result is that the LAMP community will not bother precisely because the spec came from Microsoft. The conclusion then is that Infocards is exactly the same as Passport. A reasonable identity system that only ever gets used inside Microsoft’s garden. The garden may have no walls but there’s still nobody else in it. What would be worse than this would be if Infocards has an open spec but the spec requires technology that only Microsoft has. Then it really doesn’t matter whether it’s open or not, it’s still impossible for anyone else to implement. For the record, I think that’s where it’s going. Like I said at the start I really, really hope I’m wrong.
I’ve thrown down a gauntlet in front of Kim Cameron. “Explain how InfoCard will get implemented on LAMP systems”. That doesn’t mean Kim has to do it, or that Microsoft has to do it. It’s only asking Microsoft how they think it will get done and by implication whether they’ll do anything to help. 9 months later, I’m still waiting for an answer.
The deeper question in here is how much any of these BigCos can open up and involve and support the development community when they are “in the business of taking care of themselves”. Google’s work with XMPP and Yahoo’s API groups are hopeful signs that people in those companies can see the self interest in supporting and listening to 3rd parties. Can Microsoft do the same thing? Or is the limit of their openness to use open standards? Although even that is a huge step which should be applauded.
Sam Sethi said some things that suggest that he does get it. And he’s a consultant working back in his old company not an employee. But I’m afraid the presentation seemed to be a classic MS presentation of futures, most of which were “Me Too” products, sprinkled overall with plenty of FUD. I’ve sat through too many of those not to be just a tiny bit cynical.
Came across this via Julian Bond’s weblog.
Assuming MS *are* prepared to be open on the tech and code level, watch out for another recent MS tactic that we ran into in the anti-spam world; the seemingly-open proposed standard and APIs, with hefty ball-and-chain licensing terms hidden “behind the curtain”.
MS’ techies are more open nowadays, but afaict, MS’ management and legal sides simply don’t speak that language.
Came across this via Julian Bond’s weblog.
Assuming MS *are* prepared to be open on the tech and code level, watch out for another recent MS tactic that we ran into in the anti-spam world; the seemingly-open proposed standard and APIs, with hefty ball-and-chain licensing terms hidden “behind the curtain”.
MS’ techies are more open nowadays, but afaict, MS’ management and legal sides simply don’t speak that language.
Came across this via Julian Bond’s weblog.
Assuming MS *are* prepared to be open on the tech and code level, watch out for another recent MS tactic that we ran into in the anti-spam world; the seemingly-open proposed standard and APIs, with hefty ball-and-chain licensing terms hidden “behind the curtain”.
MS’ techies are more open nowadays, but afaict, MS’ management and legal sides simply don’t speak that language.
Julian,
As a matter of fact, we’d LOVE to see implementations of InfoCard for easy hook into PHP, Ruby on Rails, or whatever. We’re not going to deliver these hooks ourselves, but we would bend over backwards to make sure that these platforms can successfully implement. InfoCard fails if it’s not ubiquitous, and you can be sure we’ll help “competitors” implement. I would just say, stay tuned over the next couple of months for some really significant news, and if you have anyone wanting to build hooks on their web server platform (who isn’t already working with us), have them e-mail me (joshuaa at microsoft.com) and I’ll hook them up with the right people.
Julian,
As a matter of fact, we’d LOVE to see implementations of InfoCard for easy hook into PHP, Ruby on Rails, or whatever. We’re not going to deliver these hooks ourselves, but we would bend over backwards to make sure that these platforms can successfully implement. InfoCard fails if it’s not ubiquitous, and you can be sure we’ll help “competitors” implement. I would just say, stay tuned over the next couple of months for some really significant news, and if you have anyone wanting to build hooks on their web server platform (who isn’t already working with us), have them e-mail me (joshuaa at microsoft.com) and I’ll hook them up with the right people.
Julian,
As a matter of fact, we’d LOVE to see implementations of InfoCard for easy hook into PHP, Ruby on Rails, or whatever. We’re not going to deliver these hooks ourselves, but we would bend over backwards to make sure that these platforms can successfully implement. InfoCard fails if it’s not ubiquitous, and you can be sure we’ll help “competitors” implement. I would just say, stay tuned over the next couple of months for some really significant news, and if you have anyone wanting to build hooks on their web server platform (who isn’t already working with us), have them e-mail me (joshuaa at microsoft.com) and I’ll hook them up with the right people.
Justin: it’s caveat emptor even with seemingly “open” licenses; sorry I don’t know anything about the anti-spam case, and I admit licensing can be overly complex. In the specific case of InfoCard, I don’t know the details either, but AFAIK, the entire stack is W3C or Oasis specs; with the goal being interop rather than pushing any proprietary technologies. It’s a good question to direct at Kim and the other panelists for Identity at MIX06
Justin: it’s caveat emptor even with seemingly “open” licenses; sorry I don’t know anything about the anti-spam case, and I admit licensing can be overly complex. In the specific case of InfoCard, I don’t know the details either, but AFAIK, the entire stack is W3C or Oasis specs; with the goal being interop rather than pushing any proprietary technologies. It’s a good question to direct at Kim and the other panelists for Identity at MIX06
Justin: it’s caveat emptor even with seemingly “open” licenses; sorry I don’t know anything about the anti-spam case, and I admit licensing can be overly complex. In the specific case of InfoCard, I don’t know the details either, but AFAIK, the entire stack is W3C or Oasis specs; with the goal being interop rather than pushing any proprietary technologies. It’s a good question to direct at Kim and the other panelists for Identity at MIX06
I guess you’ve all seen this? Kim on Infocard in Wordpress. I can’t wait to see it and I’ll be the first to congratulate Kim and put Mr Cynical back in the box.
I guess you’ve all seen this? Kim on Infocard in Wordpress. I can’t wait to see it and I’ll be the first to congratulate Kim and put Mr Cynical back in the box.
I guess you’ve all seen this? Kim on Infocard in Wordpress. I can’t wait to see it and I’ll be the first to congratulate Kim and put Mr Cynical back in the box.
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Sorry I drifted into politics, but check it out, anyway. If you don’t remember me, my name is CHUCK WHITE and me and Danny Goodman did great stuff for you when your ideas were just starting to germinate.
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Sorry we’ve been out of touch, I loved your car. Still have it?
Hey, pal, you totally owe me.
Sorry I drifted into politics, but check it out, anyway. If you don’t remember me, my name is CHUCK WHITE and me and Danny Goodman did great stuff for you when your ideas were just starting to germinate.
So I am calling my favor to you (free work) and asking you to at least look at my site and make a comment!.
Sorry we’ve been out of touch, I loved your car. Still have it?
Hey, pal, you totally owe me.
Sorry I drifted into politics, but check it out, anyway. If you don’t remember me, my name is CHUCK WHITE and me and Danny Goodman did great stuff for you when your ideas were just starting to germinate.
So I am calling my favor to you (free work) and asking you to at least look at my site and make a comment!.
Sorry we’ve been out of touch, I loved your car. Still have it?
Sorry, left off the link
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Sorry, left off the link
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Sorry, left off the link
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So now, it comes to, what is next?
What would have happened? What could have happened? The reality is that Dave Winer and Marc Canter will not be running for president soon and if they did, I would not vote for either of them, even if their blogs do kick butt. I’ve been watching Winer’s blogs since I was a pup, and was one of the first people in the world to link to him. And I have met Marc Canter, and actually tasted from his glass. At the time, he toasted to me with a dirty glass, but wow, what a ride he took me back in. Marc, I still got the glass. It is the one Danny Goodman tasted. If that helps.
You know what’s weird?
I grokked you guys both (Winer and you) a long time ago.
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There are more pages, if you want them.
So now, it comes to, what is next?
What would have happened? What could have happened? The reality is that Dave Winer and Marc Canter will not be running for president soon and if they did, I would not vote for either of them, even if their blogs do kick butt. I’ve been watching Winer’s blogs since I was a pup, and was one of the first people in the world to link to him. And I have met Marc Canter, and actually tasted from his glass. At the time, he toasted to me with a dirty glass, but wow, what a ride he took me back in. Marc, I still got the glass. It is the one Danny Goodman tasted. If that helps.
You know what’s weird?
I grokked you guys both (Winer and you) a long time ago.
So I am calling it.
The Gore Years.
There are more pages, if you want them.
So now, it comes to, what is next?
What would have happened? What could have happened? The reality is that Dave Winer and Marc Canter will not be running for president soon and if they did, I would not vote for either of them, even if their blogs do kick butt. I’ve been watching Winer’s blogs since I was a pup, and was one of the first people in the world to link to him. And I have met Marc Canter, and actually tasted from his glass. At the time, he toasted to me with a dirty glass, but wow, what a ride he took me back in. Marc, I still got the glass. It is the one Danny Goodman tasted. If that helps.
You know what’s weird?
I grokked you guys both (Winer and you) a long time ago.
So I am calling it.
The Gore Years.
There are more pages, if you want them.
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